Gray H., you offered to name names, you were then invited to name names, and then you did not name any.

Take your righteousness to the witness stand and go be a hero... it looks like SCO could really use the help.

Any of you folks ever hear of Fortune Systems? They ran Unix in production from early eighties to early ninties.

So did ATT with MB3s and MB5s, all running system V if I am not mistaken.

AIX did not show up "on radar" until late 1980's (about that time.... on AS 400 platform to replace the OS 360/370 on those machines.)

Unix wasn't even available from ATT until late seventies on DEC hardware if I remember right DECUS (DEC user Group tapes....FREE!!!!!)

Since COmpaq bought DEC and HP bought Compaq......Maybe we should chack with HP about all this.

DEC was the basis (ala VMS) for MSDOS FAT file system, and Windows NT operating system (at least the memory model).

David Cutler was hired from DEC in late 1980's from DEC by M$ to work on NT with Joint IBM/M$ OS/2 team and Microsofts "secret" NT departure strategy.

Ever Wonder how much OS/2 is in NT????? Only the parts of NT that works!!! HAH

Microsoft is the true devil here, not IBM or ATT.

SCO is memrely the Litigious "me-me" wanting a piece of the action.

SCO was is and always will be Junk, Joke, and Jerks (trilple J)

LOL

IBM was stealing code back when Unix shipped on 1.2 MB 5 1/4" diskettes folks. The unix source came on 1/2" mag tape.

And the System IV rights IBM paid for primarily were kernel rights, not a shrink wrap OS.

And now you know why IBM was so deparate to steal. The only vendors who really had a a commercial Unix OS at the time of the RTPC were SCO's 16 bit (for Intel 286 PC's) and Sun Microsystems (I bet they wish they never picked "Microsystems" for part of their name) OS for Sun 2's.

Interestingly, the RT-PC was a huge success for IBM in Europe, but not because of Unix...but because of an OS called PICK that handled terminals really well. There was one man who made a lot of LEGITIMATE MONEY with the IBM RTPC in the United States: His name was Charles Dickens and he founded Dickens Data Systems in Atlanta, GA. HE WAS ONE MAN SMART ENOUGH NOT TO USE IBM'S UNIX. AND HE TOLD THEM SO! HE TOLD THEM, "I MAKE MONEY SELLING YOUR MACHINE, BUT YOUR SW SUCKS!" And so he did not use AIX, and he became a multimillionaire.

This realization (that the IBM RT-RISC hardware was pretty good...but sadly IBM was not a SW company at the time) lead to one realization...to beat the Sun 2, they would have to buy a cheap Unix kernel (System IV), and then STEAL pieces of utilities to make it work. So, they stole from SCO, from Berkeley Unix, and Amdahl UTS (or something like that, I can't exactly remember the Amdahl Unix name).

I was there, I saw the headers come off. You guys might get to keep your jobs, but IBM will have to get out their wallet...the writing is on the wall. The lawsuit is probably a strategic motivator to move to India now...US laws for Intellectual Property won't apply...IBM management can look the other way while code is stolen from American shores via FTP in the middle of the night. The only cutbacks right now in IBM that aren't occurring are on their legal teams! But when they move to India, they can hire Indian legal teams that will cost less, and court for stolen software will have to be held in Bangalore, not in US Federal Court.

They learned a lot from Hitachi..Hitachi first did it to them in the first place and got away with it for pennys on the dollar. They're just did it back to SCO.

Feces in IBM's direction? They make their own to sit in...it doesn't need to be flung. I'm just pointing out what they are sitting in, of their own making.

Ok, Gray H. let's ship my job to India.

Noted elsewhere by others, so I'll post it here.

It seems there never was a "large System IV install base." That's all in Gray's head.

http://www.usenix.org/publications/login/2000-4/20yearsago.html :

"As best I remember, there was indeed a System IV, but it was never offered for licensing via Western Electric. I no longer recall the exact reason why, but I think that it was not a major step beyond System III."

Ok, Strike One. Moving on...

> I am age 40+, a former IBMer, and if you like, I can
> start listing IBM manager names right here in this space
> and we can skip the legal "discovery process" right now. > I can also start naming contractors from places like MIT
> (former Athena designers) who worked as contractors to
> help IBM steal code.

Ok Gray, you are welcome to start naming names now. Please be careful not to fabricate any obviously bogus names; accidentally calling out that thieving contractor "Harvey Hamster" will only have us laughing like hell. ;-)

> With regards to some of you Linux people that think its
> okay to compete in the SW marketplace on price-only
> without regards to including ethics

This falls under the "see the monkey fling the feces!" department.

You essentially insult our ethics without any proven basis. Then again, SCO launches lawsuits and legal threats without any proven basis, so I guess you fit in just fine.

> you will be the first to have your jobs moved to India in
> the IBM India offshoring tsunami. Redhat in Raleigh, NC
> is right nextdoor to Misys (the largest IBM pSeries
> reseller in the U.S., and Misys is moving their
> programming offshore with IBM Business Consulting
> blessing.) Heck, 1/2 of redhat is former IBM
> execs...these execs all talk in meetings...you guys can
> try to cover for them on these boards...but they are
> going to ship your jobs to India at the first drop of a
> penny.

So what exactly does this have to do with SCO and its ability (or more accurately, lack thereof) to launch a worthwhile lawsuit? What does it have to do with IBM's guilt or innocence in the current matter?

Oh, of course, you just wanted to throw some more feces in IBM's direction.

*plonk*

Gary H, where you trying to post as me...Gray H?
My handle was not a typo. It stands for Gray Hair!
I am age 40+, a former IBMer, and if you like, I can
start listing IBM manager names right here in this space and we can skip the legal "discovery process" right now. I can also start naming contractors from places like MIT (former Athena designers) who worked as contractors to help IBM steal code.

Is there an attorney watching this thread who would like to please subpoena the IP address that posted for myself (Gray H). I'd love to appear in court. I'd guess that you'd like to settle out of court, but right now, I could enjoy a paid field trip to Federal Court.

With regards to some of you Linux people that think its okay to compete in the SW marketplace on price-only without regards to including ethics...you will be the first to have your jobs moved to India in the IBM India offshoring tsunami. Redhat in Raleigh, NC is right nextdoor to Misys (the largest IBM pSeries reseller in the U.S., and Misys is moving their programming offshore with IBM Business Consulting blessing.) Heck, 1/2 of redhat is former IBM execs...these execs all talk in meetings...you guys can try to cover for them on these boards...but they are going to ship your jobs to India at the first drop of a penny.

Gray H.
short for Gray Hair
(and not Gary H, the dyslexic imposter)
Hope to see you guys in church on Sunday...where we start our service with the "Confession of sins"

Since cogent and relevant comment submitted in good faith under my own name (anonymous sophmoric commentator) have been excluded from comment streams it is my assumption that those occurances were deliberate. Perhaps Mr. agenda can disabuse me of my misunderstanding instead of spewing gibberish.

Dan O'Mara suggested that Maureen filters comments to increase page hit counts. That is a sophmoric insult to a fair and honest journalist. This is not a pulpit Mr O'Mara, it is comment space to address the content of the article.

Ok, Maureen. I can see that you filter comments in preference for inflammatory and insane gibberish from the likes of "GarryH" in order to incerase your page hit count and censor and discard rational and appropriate critisism of "The SCO Group". Since you by those actions provide ostensible support for the claims of "SCO" against Linux, perhaps you could be so kind to your readership as to explain the reasoning which has brought you to make this commitment.

Dan O'Mara

My grandfather invented UNIX! I inherited it! I is ALL MINE!!!

I can vouch for Gary, we were cube neighbors. I can't tell you how much he loved Peyote. And he's right: all that AIX code was total crap. The terminal support code from SCO gave me nightmares, it was so good. Alot of other terminal plugins would drop letters and cross-tabulate them to Mandarin, if I recall correctly (we were just implementing multilanguage support, at the time as well). But with the SCO terminal support, you know that if you saw a 't', that, by golly, is just what came over the line. Balls to britches.

You know, Gary H., I don't think there ever was a SysIV. I think you are a liar.

I'll never forget how great it was to work on on the SysIV install base. The long days "burning iron" hopped up on Code Red, and the long nights of peyote driven sex and parnoia.

SCO paid me to write this. I was just kidding.

You know, current insiders at SCO are actally androids controlled by space aliens!

The code was taken from SCO, not from AT&T. At the time,
ATT had a large System IV install base, and was releasing System V about that time frame. IBM licensed the kernel, not the UUCP utilities and all the TERMCAP and ASCII terminal support that SCO improved upon over the ATT version. The TERMCAP file, ASCII support, UUCP, X.25 stuff was stolen from SCO, via contractors floating from company to company. IBM knew that the contractors might have just left an engagement at SCO to work at IBM Palo Alto or LCC. They did't care where the code came from...only that the contractors hired had access to the "best" parts of the commerical u*ix source trees out there. This was a very competitive time frame when IBM was way behind in having a good u*nix. The AIX RT version was riddled with CRAP from the stuff they bought from ATT (the IV release...I don't think IBM had the V stuff yet). It was so bad, that IBM couldn't sell an RT PC to anyone at a major university unless they sold it with Berkely Unix (a group of IBM called "ACIS" (IBM Academic Computing & Instruction Sales") That version was called ACIS 4.2.

IBM management saw themselves as having no choice except to work with the System IV crap they had, hire LCC, and hire floating contractors. It was during this time period that much of the copyright headers from Amdahl, SCO, and other small players got stripped off. IBM would always leave the ATT copyrights as well as the Berkeley copyrights...everything else in the include files, TERMCAP files, etc. disappeared.

Gray H., didn't IBM purchase a Unix licence that *allowed* them to actually do that?

AIX has not always been proprietary. For example, it was
licensed in 1994 to Motorola & Apple during the AIM PowerPC
initiative.

AIX has so much stolen code...for example, the AIX/370 and
AIX PS/2 "Locus Computing Corp" Kernel with TCF has 1987-1988 code stolen from SCO, Berkeley V, AT&T System IV.
The IBM executive management at IBM Palo Alto knowingly looked the other way while contractors traveling between Inglewood, CA LCC and IBM Palo Alto Research Center lifted code from all sort of U*ix source trees. How do I know? I worked at IBM Palo Alto & sat in the meetings. It was a time when IBM didn't care about Unix...they only cared about mainframes and OS/2. LCC was creating AIX/370 and AIX/PS2 based on a Berkeley kernel. IBM Austin was working with porting the AIX RT kernel to the RS/6000, merging the ATT System IV kernel with the Berkeley utilities lifted during the LCC port (and a few SCO goodies got moved as well).

SCO was perceived to have the best TERMINAL I/O SUPPORT...better than ANY UNIX out there. SCO made tons of money by supporting ASCII terminals very well, as well as UUCP connections. Much of the stolen SCO code was for TERMINAL SUPPORT, UUCP, and some X.25 stuff that SCO developed for European customers. This all made it into the AIX RS/6000 release of 1991.

IBM management is a bunch of thieves...always has been. look no further than the bribery fiasco just this year at IBM Korea to see that. Great employees...but scum managers and IBM attorneys that do nothing but cover up management corruption at IBM.

Terminal support, UUCP, X.25, all kinds of stuff stolen from SCO...just about everything about AIX is stolen except for SMIT and the dynamic device driver (VRM heritage) stuff.

AIX has not always been proprietary. For example, it was
licensed in 1994 to Motorola & Apple during the AIM PowerPC
initiative.

AIX has so much stolen code...for example, the AIX/370 and
AIX PS/2 "Locus Computing Corp" Kernel with TCF has 1987-1988 code stolen from SCO, Berkeley V, AT&T System IV.
The IBM executive management at IBM Palo Alto knowingly looked the other way while contractors traveling between Inglewood, CA LCC and IBM Palo Alto Research Center lifted code from all sort of U*ix source trees. How do I know? I worked at IBM Palo Alto & sat in the meetings. It was a time when IBM didn't care about Unix...they only cared about mainframes and OS/2. LCC was creating AIX/370 and AIX/PS2 based on a Berkeley kernel. IBM Austin was working with porting the AIX RT kernel to the RS/6000, merging the ATT System IV kernel with the Berkeley utilities lifted during the LCC port (and a few SCO goodies got moved as well).

SCO was perceived to have the best TERMINAL I/O SUPPORT...better than ANY UNIX out there. SCO made tons of money by supporting ASCII terminals very well, as well as UUCP connections. Much of the stolen SCO code was for TERMINAL SUPPORT, UUCP, and some X.25 stuff that SCO developed for European customers. This all made it into the AIX RS/6000 release of 1991.

IBM management is a bunch of thieves...always has been. look no further than the bribery fiasco just this year at IBM Korea to see that. Great employees...but scum managers and IBM attorneys that do nothing but cover up management corruption at IBM.

Terminal support, UUCP, X.25, all kinds of stuff stolen from SCO...just about everything about AIX is stolen except for SMIT and the dynamic device driver (VRM heritage) stuff.

It's time for SCO to come to grips with reality and quit mudslinging. How stupid do they think IBM is? They are going to hand over all the AIX source code for SCO to examine? Yeah right, keep dreaming! Remember, it's only Linux that is Open Source, AIX is and has always been proprietary.

Strange Corrupt Organization (SCO)
is grabbing straws faster than than a room full of third graders at a free soda convention.

Only someone with in a Severly Criminal Orientation (SCO) would mistake header files for binary code.

Steadily Crying Outrageously (SCO) is no way to go through life. Speaking of which, get one.

SCO is a loser operating system, and they ar sour graping Linux.

HAH!